i wasn't separating out about the specifics of entitlement reform and tax reform from the larger issue of how to bring the middle class back, because they are all tied together, david. you can't have one without the other. >> i understand. but the republican thinking in congress has been that the cuts are enough. and that is not the answer. >> no, no, i couldn't agree more. if you take just education and job creation, for example, there is going to be a sea change in american education, which is already underway. go long on community colleges. >> yes. >> developing a skill set. >> yes. we need to support that. and we need to support that, but i need to challenge one thing -- >> medicaid and medicare together. medicare and medicaid together. within 10 years, it devours every cent. >> there's a progressive argument for dealing with that issue. >> which is what? when are we going to hear it? >> well, i want to challenge you and you as well, david, on this point. >> challenge the president, david. >> no, you and you. the premise that the president has not been venturesome in this area, has